Meeting log for 2012-04-12

Watch out for the move to 17th May for next meeting and the call for
help with the PHP membership management system. Share and enjoy!

HIGHLIGHTS

21:01:06 <bdale> *GAVEL*

21:01:06 <bdale> [item 1, Opening] Welcome to today's Software in the
Public Interest board of directors meeting, which is now called to
order. Today's agenda and details of pending resolutions can be found
on the web at:
http://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/agendas/2012/2012-04-12/

[item 2, Roll Call]
21:01:17 <Noodles> Jonathan McDowell
21:01:17 <Clint> Clint Adams
21:01:18 <zobel> Martin Zobel-Helas
21:01:19 <Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz
21:01:21 <bdale> Bdale Garbee
21:01:21 <Ganneff> Joerg Jaspert
21:01:24 <Solver> Robert Brockway
21:01:26 <schultmc> Michael Schultheiss

[item 3, President's Report]
21:02:21 <bdale> My apologies to the board for my absence from our
last meeting, I suffered an unanticipated airline flight delay that
day.

[item 4, Treasurer's Report]
21:02:34 <schultmc> standard report was mailed out and is in the
agenda. nothing of note although Debian did receive a large donation
via credit card - the donor should be informed of lest costly donation
methods. no chance yet to review options for bookkeeping
assistance. - I'll be less busy after this weekend

[item 5, Secretary's report]
21:04:22 <Noodles> Nothing from me.

[item 6, Outstanding minutes]
voting results for "Minutes for 8th March 2012 board meeting": Yes: 6,
Abstain: 2

[item 7, Items up for discussion]

[item 7.1, YafaRay selling training materials]
21:06:20 * Hydroxide sees no problem with YafaRay selling educational,
training, or documentation materials about YafaRay.

21:06:36 <bdale> I didn't see any problem either, so wasn't sure why
this was on the agenda

21:06:46 <Hydroxide> my guess is Alvaro wanted to prod us into action
but, someone will have to handle things like collecting sales tax and
verifying what needs to happen there and in which jurisdictions

21:07:22 <Noodles> I'm guessing it may be driven from outside the US.
IIRC YafaRay are mostly in Europe. Which may make sales tax a non
issue. But aside from checking the exact nature of that I don't see a
problem.

21:08:05 <Hydroxide> Noodles: if SPI is doing the sales, we can't
ignore US or New York law, as a US and New York entity. we may have
other jurisdictions to worry about - no idea about EU VAT myself. none
of this is a problem, someone just has to follow up on it

21:09:43 <Alvaro> afaik tax sales should be handled by SPI in regard
to his legal address

21:10:11 <bdale> in the US, most states only require the collection of
sales tax for items sold in the same jurisdiction as the seller. I'm
not 100% clear on NY law, but I suspect tax only needs to be collected
on sales of items to NY addresses

21:10:55 <Hydroxide> bdale: yes - but we might at least have to worry
about it for New York buyers, and possibly Indiana and other buyers
where we have either officers, directors, and/or significant donations
or sales. agreed that we basically have to do it for NY unless this
falls into an exception like DebConf10's activities did. there is
probably some way to use a third-party to handle the whole sales
process for us, including tax collections stuff. so the work involved
might just be "find an online storefront that does that and confirm
with SFLC that that meets our obligations"

21:11:32 <bdale> wrt sales tax collection, don't make it more
complicated than it needs to be is my general advice. ok, I think we
can wrap this for today. Hydroxide will look for suitable
out-sourcers and we can discuss on list as no resolution should be
required

[item 7.2, Discussion of tracking system]
21:16:09 <Solver> There is a general concensus that a tracking system
is a good idea and RT seems to be the preferred option at this stage I
think we just need to confirm we will get it installed and running

21:16:37 <Ganneff> im against redmine unless someone has a reason for
the other features it has. which i can't see. im fine with rt, have
multiple of em, its nice and easy to adapt if need be. i veto otrs as
its sh*t as hell if someone plans to mention it... i think we will end
up with a nice little vm just for this, so i can easily hand out rt
admin access to others (including filesystem access i mean, not just
the web stuff).

21:16:46 <Noodles> Again I didn't think this really needed to be on
the agenda as I thought we'd come to a decision offline.

[item 8, Any other business]
21:18:35 <Noodles> I'd like to apologise for making zero progress on
membership cleanup. Various things came up that meant I didn't have a
decent chunk of time to sit down and look at the website code, though
I did have a few thoughts on what I wanted to do with it. I think all
the discussion from last month is still relevant. If someone else has
time/inclination to jump in and suggest some changes or wants to
discuss with me I'm happy for that to happen. As I said I'm not a PHP
person so it's a steeper curve for me. Largely I think we/I want a
"I'm still interested" button/link in the members area to update an
active date field in the DB. And a vote will also update that field.
And then we can mail based on that field, and cull x weeks after the
mail based on that field. And that can all be largely automatic. So
extend the members table to have that field, extend the vote script to
update it, add a page/link to update it from the web interface and add
a script to send out a mail with a link to the page. I don't think
it's complex, I just haven't had time to sit down and write code.

21:19:01 <bdale> I'll note in passing here that I've already proposed
a SPI BOF for Debconf 12, all who plan to attend from the board are
respectfully asked to include it in their plans once it gets scheduled
assuming it does

[item 9, Next board meeting]
21:25:22 <bdale> let's go with the 17th then, then return to normal in June

21:25:38 <bdale> *GAVEL*

TIMED LOG

21:01:06 <bdale> *GAVEL*
21:01:06 <bdale> [item 1, Opening] Welcome to today's Software in the Public Interest board of directors meeting, which is now called to order.
21:01:06 <bdale> Today's agenda and details of pending resolutions can be found on the web at: http://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/agendas/2012/2012-04-12/
21:01:15 <bdale> [item 2, Roll Call]
21:01:15 <bdale> Board members, please state your name for the record. As we have nine board members, quorum for today's meeting is six.
21:01:15 <bdale> Guests (including board advisors), please /msg your names to Noodles if you wish your attendance to be recorded in the minutes of this meeting.
21:01:17 <Noodles> Jonathan McDowell
21:01:17 <Clint> Clint Adams
21:01:18 <zobel> Martin Zobel-Helas
21:01:19 <Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz
21:01:21 <bdale> Bdale Garbee
21:01:21 <Ganneff> Joerg Jaspert
21:01:24 <Solver> Robert Brockway
21:01:26 <schultmc> Michael Schultheiss
21:01:50 <Hydroxide> everyone but linuxpoet
21:01:53 <bdale> did we hear from him?
21:02:03 <Noodles> I didn't.
21:02:12 <Hydroxide> he commented laconically on the ticketing system thread, but that's it
21:02:15 <bdale> perhaps he'll join us then, since we have quorum I will proceed
21:02:21 <bdale> [item 3, President's Report]
21:02:21 <bdale> My apologies to the board for my absence from our last meeting, I suffered an unanticipated airline flight delay that day.
21:02:21 <bdale> [item 4, Treasurer's Report]
21:02:21 <bdale> Michael?
21:02:34 <schultmc> standard report was mailed out and is in the agenda
21:02:39 <schultmc> nothing of note
21:02:57 <bdale> any questions for Michael? mine was already answered this morning.
21:03:09 <schultmc> although Debian did receive a large donation via credit card - the donor should be informed of lest costly donation methods
21:03:14 <Solver> bdale: yes one....
21:03:31 <Solver> schultmc: any chance to review options for bookkeeping assistance?
21:03:52 <schultmc> Solver: not yet - I'll be less busy after this weekend
21:04:04 <Solver> np thanks
21:04:11 <bdale> great
21:04:16 <bdale> [item 5, Secretary's report]
21:04:16 <bdale> Jonathan?
21:04:22 <Noodles> Nothing from me.
21:04:36 <bdale> [item 6, Outstanding minutes]
21:04:36 <bdale> Jonathan, I believe we have last month's to vote on?
21:04:39 <Noodles> Voting started, 8 people (clint,zobel,hydroxide,bdale,ganneff,solver,schultmc,noodles) allowed to vote on Minutes for 8th March 2012 board meeting. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
21:04:46 <bdale> !vote abstain
21:04:47 <Hydroxide> !vote abstain
21:04:49 <schultmc> !vote yes
21:04:50 <Solver> !vote yes
21:04:51 <Ganneff> !vote yes
21:04:54 <Clint> !vote yes
21:04:55 <Noodles> !vote yes
21:05:08 <zobel> !vote yes
21:05:17 <Noodles> Current voting results for "Minutes for 8th March 2012 board meeting": Yes: 6, No: 0, Abstain: 2, Missing: 0 ()
21:05:20 <Noodles> Voting for "Minutes for 8th March 2012 board meeting" closed.
21:05:25 <bdale> thanks, all!
21:05:31 <bdale> [item 7, Items up for discussion]
21:05:31 <bdale> [item 7.1, YafaRay selling training materials]
21:05:31 <bdale> Who wants to speak to this?
21:06:15 <Ganneff> woo, not so many at once.
21:06:15 <Noodles> I don't think I saw any serious objections to this?
21:06:16 <Solver> What was the final opinion from counsel?
21:06:20 * Hydroxide sees no problem with YafaRay selling educational, training, or documentation materials about YafaRay.
21:06:36 <bdale> I didn't see any problem either, so wasn't sure why this was on the agenda
21:06:46 <Hydroxide> Solver: we shouldn't get to specific about the details in a public channel, due to privilege concerns. my guess is Alvaro wanted to prod us into action
21:07:03 <Solver> Hydroxide: yes good point
21:07:07 <Hydroxide> but, someone will have to handle things like collecting sales tax and verifying what needs to happen there
21:07:12 <Hydroxide> and in which jurisdictions
21:07:17 <bdale> so is there anything for us to discuss or act on here today?
21:07:22 <Noodles> I'm guessing it may be driven from outside the US.
21:07:31 <Noodles> IIRC YafaRay are mostly in Europe.
21:07:44 <Noodles> Which may make sales tax a non issue.
21:08:02 <Alvaro> am I allowed to speak?
21:08:04 <bdale> US sales tax, certainly
21:08:05 <Hydroxide> Noodles: if SPI is doing the sales, we can't ignore US or New York law, as a US and New York entity. we may have other jurisdictions to worry about - no idea about EU VAT myself
21:08:06 <bdale> Alvaro: please
21:08:06 <Noodles> But aside from checking the exact nature of that I don't see a problem.
21:08:17 <Hydroxide> Noodles: none of this is a problem, someone just has to follow up on it
21:09:14 <bdale> Alvaro: please speak if you wish
21:09:43 <Alvaro> afaik tax sales should be handled by SPI in regard to his legal address
21:10:11 <bdale> in the US, most states only require the collection of sales tax for items sold in the same jurisdiction as the seller
21:10:16 <Hydroxide> there is probably some way to use a third-party to handle the whole sales process for us, including tax collections stuff. so the work involved might just be "find an online storefront that does that and confirm with SFLC that that meets our obligations"
21:10:37 <bdale> I'm not 100% clear on US law, but I suspect tax only needs to be collected on sales of items to NY addresses
21:10:48 <bdale> s/US/NY/
21:10:55 <Hydroxide> bdale: yes - but we might at least have to worry about it for New York buyers, and possibly Indiana and other buyers where we have either officers, directors, and/or significant donations or sales
21:11:19 <Hydroxide> bdale: agreed that we basically have to do it for NY unless this falls into an exception like DebConf10's activities did
21:11:32 <bdale> wrt sales tax collection, don't make it more complicated than it needs to be is my general advice
21:11:38 <Hydroxide> yup
21:11:47 <Hydroxide> that's why I'm suggesting outsourcing that :)
21:11:53 <bdale> ok, so I see no action for us to take today?
21:12:25 <Hydroxide> someone just has to follow up on it. no vote needed today.
21:12:32 <bdale> I can't think of any issue outsourcing it, it shouldn't need a board resolution
21:12:36 <Hydroxide> right
21:12:44 <Alvaro> so how we should proceed when our training stuff is finished
21:12:57 <Hydroxide> Alvaro: how soon are you expecting that to be ready?
21:13:05 <Solver> Alvaro: how long until you think you will be ready?
21:13:13 * Hydroxide grins at Solver
21:13:17 <Solver> Hydroxide: :)
21:13:23 <Alvaro> soon, within this month probably
21:13:27 <bdale> ok
21:13:50 <bdale> Hydroxide: did you have an particular suggestion on who to outsource to?
21:14:00 <Alvaro> do you have a tax advisor? maybe he has something to say about it
21:14:05 <Hydroxide> bdale: no. I guess I can look into it
21:14:21 <bdale> Alvaro: no, not exactly
21:14:34 <bdale> Hydroxide: if you would, that'd be great, then let's continue this discussion via email?
21:14:38 <Hydroxide> bdale: sure
21:14:38 <Solver> Alvaro: we discussed it with legal counsel at the time of the request but not an accountant afaik
21:14:50 <Alvaro> I see
21:14:56 <Solver> bdale: agreed
21:15:07 <bdale> ok, I think we can wrap this for today. Hydroxide will look for suitable out-sourcers and we can discuss on list as no resolution should be required
21:15:17 <Hydroxide> Solver: it doesn't really have tax implications for SPI so we don't need tax advice - it's more legal advice about which taxes we have to collect and pass on, and how to do that with as little effort and complication as possible :)
21:15:29 <bdale> Alvaro: thanks for your input to the discussion, we'll look forward to working with you to do the right thing(s)
21:15:35 <bdale> [item 7.2, Discussion of tracking system]
21:15:35 <bdale> Robert, did you want to kick us off on this?
21:15:45 <Solver> sure....
21:15:47 <Alvaro> I am sorry that the whole matter could be a extra hassle for you but maybe it is an useful experience for other projects too
21:15:51 <Hydroxide> (that was meant for Alvaro, not Solver. /me yields the floor again)
21:15:57 <bdale> Alvaro: no worries
21:16:03 <bdale> it's what we're here for!
21:16:09 <Solver> There is a general concensus that a tracking system is a good idea
21:16:16 <Solver> and RT seems to be the preferred option
21:16:37 <Ganneff> im against redmine unless someone has a reason for the other features it has. which i can't see. im fine with rt, have multiple of em, its nice and easy to adapt if need be. i veto otrs as its sh*t as hell if someone plans to mention it... i think we will end up with a nice little vm just for this, so i can easily hand out rt admin access to others (including filesystem access i mean, not just the web stuff).
21:16:38 <Solver> at this stage I think we just need to confirm we will get it installed and running
21:16:46 <Noodles> Again I didn't think this really needed to be on the agenda as I thought we'd come to a decision offline.
21:17:06 <Solver> I submitted it before some discussion ensued
21:17:13 <bdale> Ganneff: if you're ok to proceed with RT, I think the answer is "just do it"
21:17:15 <Noodles> I know.
21:17:22 <Noodles> I left it anyway so we could say yay or nay.
21:17:36 <Ganneff> bdale: sure. next week, and i guess solver wants to be on board of that train
21:17:39 <Noodles> And I think we're all saying yes to RT if sysadmin(at)spi is happy to install it.
21:17:49 <bdale> I'm not going to call for a vote unless there's objection to "the plan"
21:17:53 <Solver> Noodles: exactly
21:18:02 * Hydroxide agrees with the above
21:18:13 <bdale> ok, I mark this item done and we move on. thanks, all
21:18:13 <Ganneff> we have to get up with some useful queues and groups maybe, but otherwise it will be nice and simple
21:18:21 <bdale> [item 8, Any other business]
21:18:21 <bdale> Do any board members have other items for discussion they would like to address briefly?
21:18:35 <Noodles> I'd like to apologise for making zero progress on membership cleanup.
21:19:01 <bdale> I'll note in passing here that I've already proposed a SPI BOF for Debconf 12, all who plan to attend from the board are respectfully asked to include it in their plans once it gets scheduled assuming it does
21:19:06 <Noodles> Various things came up that meant I didn't have a decent chunk of time to sit down and look at the website code, though I did have a few thoughts on what I wanted to do with it.
21:19:30 <Noodles> bdale: I'm hoping to be there so will certainly attend if so.
21:19:30 <bdale> Noodles: anything you could use help on?
21:20:11 <Noodles> I think all the discussion from last month is still relevant.
21:20:43 <Noodles> If someone else has time/inclination to jump in and suggest some changes or wants to discuss with me I'm happy for that to happen. As I said I'm not a PHP person so it's a steeper curve for me.
21:20:44 * bdale reads the minutes again
21:20:44 * Hydroxide will attend the BoF
21:21:03 <zobel> schultmc: will we meet our deadline for our annual report (IRS 990)?
21:21:11 <bdale> I'm not exactly a PHP hack either .. but I do want to see us make progress on this.
21:21:13 <Clint> i'll try to take a look at the code before the next meeting
21:21:15 <schultmc> zobel: yes
21:21:19 <bdale> Clint: thanks
21:21:23 <zobel> schultmc: thx
21:21:23 <Noodles> bdale: Largely I think we/I want a "I'm still interested" button/link in the members area to update an active date field in the DB.
21:21:37 <Noodles> And a vote will also update that field.
21:21:54 <Noodles> And then we can mail based on that field, and cull x weeks after the mail based on that field.
21:21:56 <bdale> ok, that makes sense .. sound like something you can handle, Clint?
21:22:03 <Noodles> And that can all be largely automatic.
21:22:17 <Clint> probably, depending on what the db's like
21:22:33 <bdale> ok .. let's all poke each other on IRC as needed to get this done in the next month?
21:22:43 <Noodles> So extend the members table to have that field, extend the vote script to update it, add a page/link to update it from the web interface and add a script to send out a mail with a link to the page.
21:23:09 <Noodles> I don't think it's complex, I just haven't had time to sit down and write code.
21:23:33 <bdale> understand .. I've been pretty swamped too, but as I say this is important so let's all try to collaborate and get it done
21:23:38 <bdale> ok, anything else?
21:23:45 <bdale> [item 9, Next board meeting]
21:23:45 <bdale> Our next regularly-scheduled monthly meeting would be 9 May 2012, 20:00 UTC.
21:23:45 <bdale> Any strong objections?
21:23:47 <schultmc> I'll be at a conference the second week of May 2012. I'd prefer moving the meeting to 2012-05-17
21:24:11 <Solver> no objections
21:24:21 * zobel will not be able to attend the next meeting
21:24:27 <bdale> either week would be ok with me
21:24:37 <zobel> i will be on VAC whole of May.
21:24:40 <bdale> any strong objections to the 17th?
21:24:41 <Noodles> Fine with me. I note UDS is on the second week of May. It'd be good to meet anyone who's going to be in the Bay Area for that.
21:24:58 <Ganneff> i might not be at that meeting. depends on when the babys crawling out, but its right before that...
21:25:07 <schultmc> Noodles: I'll be in the bay area for a different conference
21:25:16 <zobel> babys?!
21:25:22 <bdale> Noodles: let's go with the 17th then, then return to normal in June, ok?
21:25:28 <Noodles> bdale: Sure.
21:25:29 <schultmc> works for me
21:25:32 <Ganneff> ahwell, minus the s. or plus a ' :)
21:25:38 <bdale> Ok, thank you to everyone present for participating today.
21:25:38 <bdale> *GAVEL*

--
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op.
http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer.
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/