Re: [evan@telly.org: Questions for ZDNet article]

Since Mr. Leibovitch has failled once again to do anything resembling
homework before he starts acting based on what he "knows" (like that
Wichert is the head of SPI for example and various outright lies he has
spread about Debian in previous columns) I guess somebody has to direct
this person to SPI and let them handle it.

I would reply to Mr. Leibovitch directly, however I would likely not be
terribly kind to him given his blatant misrepresentation of my favorite
free software project for what can be easily shown to be to his direct
financial advantage.... Well, lets just say I've rewritten these two
paragraphs about six times trying to make what I'm writing something I'm
willing to show the general public. I'm not pleased with the guy so far.

--
Joseph Carter <knghtbrd(at)debian(dot)org> Debian GNU/Linux developer
PGP: E8D68481E3A8BB77 8EE22996C9445FBE The Source Comes First!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Knghtbrd> I can think of lots of people who need USER=ID10T someplace!
<Knghtbrd> It'd be a great service to mankind don't you think?

On Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:51:39PM -0700, Joseph Carter wrote:
> Since Mr. Leibovitch has failled once again to do anything resembling
> homework before he starts acting based on what he "knows" (like that
> Wichert is the head of SPI for example and various outright lies he has
> spread about Debian in previous columns) I guess somebody has to direct
> this person to SPI and let them handle it.

It seems I owe an apology for this part of my message. It seems Mr.
Leibovitch has tried to contact SPI directly and has not been answered,
so I'm apparently blaming him for something that isn't his fault. I
guess I should chalk this up to SPI worrying too much about writing
policy governing how to write policy to accomplish something important
instead of worrying about how to accomplish something important for the
moment.

Oh sure it would be nice if someone at SPI would take the wooden mallet
in my sig (this thing is psychic I swear) and whack the guy in the head a
few times, but sometimes I wonder if it might not first be necessary to
stick a few thumbtacks on the chairs of the SPI people in question first.

He is probably going to write an article about how incompitent SPI has
been, and how silent, and how nobody knows what SPI is doing (if anything
at all, which I'm seriously wondering about myself actually and I'm
supposed to be one of those people who knows better!)

This article can be partially FUD or completely FUD mixed with a few
lies, at this point I guess it's not my call. OTOH, I'm not very happy
that SPI is apparently taking this opportunity to try and educate someone
who sorely needs it to sit on their hands and do nothing. This sort of
thing isn't all that great for morale.

--
Joseph Carter <knghtbrd(at)debian(dot)org> Debian GNU/Linux developer
PGP: E8D68481E3A8BB77 8EE22996C9445FBE The Source Comes First!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
p.s. - i'm about *this* close to running around in the server room with a
pair of bolt cutters, and a large wooden mallet, laughing like a maniac and
cutting everything i can fit the bolt cutters around. and whacking that
which i cannot. so if i seem semi-incoherent, or just really *really* nasty
at times, please forgive me. stress is not a pretty thing. };P
-- Phillip R. Jaenke

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Christoph Lameter wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Joseph Carter wrote:
> You are not the only one who has this impression. There has been frequent
> critique of the handling of the trademark issue. I never heard anything
> about the patent office abandoning the trademarking of Open Source.

I was surprised by that as well.
But as long as we are talking about nothing getting done, I thought I'd
mention there has been a minor update on the SPI home page. Congrats to
Nils and Darren on the respective statuses - or should I say "Thanks for
volunteering for the dirty work." ;-)

> I sure will try to help as much as I can and I think SPI has a very
> important role to play but it seems that we are stuck in
> the mud right now and things fly by us.
>
I hope that with the non-profit status now official, and the by-laws
almost revised, SPI will start on to more tangible items.

Lynn

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Joseph Carter wrote:

> He is probably going to write an article about how incompitent SPI has
> been, and how silent, and how nobody knows what SPI is doing (if anything
> at all, which I'm seriously wondering about myself actually and I'm
> supposed to be one of those people who knows better!)

You are not the only one who has this impression. There has been frequent
critique of the handling of the trademark issue. I never heard anything
about the patent office abandoning the trademarking of Open Source.

I have tried to bring up having LUGs under SPIs umbrella here but I did
not get any response and it seems that the LUGs will try to do something
on their own now.

I sure will try to help as much as I can and I think SPI has a very
important role to play but it seems that we are stuck in
the mud right now and things fly by us.

On Thu, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:11:05PM -0500, Lynn Winebarger wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Joseph Carter wrote:
> > You are not the only one who has this impression. There has been frequent
> > critique of the handling of the trademark issue. I never heard anything
> > about the patent office abandoning the trademarking of Open Source.
>
> I was surprised by that as well.
I'd like to say I was, but I kinda saw it coming. Bruce was holding the
paperwork and it seems he wanted to see it die... The trademark issue
isn't *dead* per se, but SPI needs to get the bylaws finished so that it
has memebers to actually work on the tradmark thing.

> But as long as we are talking about nothing getting done, I thought I'd
> mention there has been a minor update on the SPI home page. Congrats to
> Nils and Darren on the respective statuses - or should I say "Thanks for
> volunteering for the dirty work." ;-)
Thank you :)

> > I sure will try to help as much as I can and I think SPI has a very
> > important role to play but it seems that we are stuck in
> > the mud right now and things fly by us.
> >
> I hope that with the non-profit status now official, and the by-laws
> almost revised, SPI will start on to more tangible items.
That's the plan I understand.. get the by-laws so we can get the actual
members.

--
Please cc all mailing list replies to me, also.
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On Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:51:39PM -0700, Joseph Carter wrote:
> Since Mr. Leibovitch has failled once again to do anything resembling
> homework before he starts acting based on what he "knows" (like that
> Wichert is the head of SPI for example and various outright lies he has
> spread about Debian in previous columns) I guess somebody has to direct
> this person to SPI and let them handle it.
>
> I would reply to Mr. Leibovitch directly, however I would likely not be
> terribly kind to him given his blatant misrepresentation of my favorite
> free software project for what can be easily shown to be to his direct
> financial advantage.... Well, lets just say I've rewritten these two
> paragraphs about six times trying to make what I'm writing something I'm
> willing to show the general public. I'm not pleased with the guy so far.
>

It was unfortunate that his questions were sent at a time when both Nils
and I were on vacation and Joey and Ian were tied up with real life issues
:(

Just thinking on my own, it might not be a bad idea if people friendly to
Debian and SPI were to write letters of complaint to Mr. Leibovitch's
employers explaining how the articles are unfounded and something along the
lines of "...not reading a publication that spreads deliberate untruths..."
or something along those lines. Readers are the basis for advertising
dollars which are the basis for income to any publication, print or
electronic.

--
Please cc all mailing list replies to me, also.
=========================================================================
* http://benham.net/index.html <gecko(at)benham(dot)net> <>< *
* -------------------- * -----------------------------------------------*
* Debian Developer, Debian Project Secretary, Debian Webmaster *
* <gecko(at)debian(dot)org> <secretary(at)debian(dot)org> <lintian-maint(at)debian(dot)org> *
* <webmaster(at)debian(dot)org> <gecko(at)fortunet(dot)com> <webmaster(at)spi-inc(dot)org> *
=========================================================================

On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 01:23:06AM -0700, Darren O. Benham wrote:
> It was unfortunate that his questions were sent at a time when both Nils
> and I were on vacation and Joey and Ian were tied up with real life issues
> :(
>
> Just thinking on my own, it might not be a bad idea if people friendly to
> Debian and SPI were to write letters of complaint to Mr. Leibovitch's
> employers explaining how the articles are unfounded and something along the
> lines of "...not reading a publication that spreads deliberate untruths..."
> or something along those lines. Readers are the basis for advertising
> dollars which are the basis for income to any publication, print or
> electronic.

Yes well his article got written anyway didn't it? His attitude was
snotty and further demonstrates his contempt for non-commercial Linux
organizations and distributions. He outright lied about SPI and
obviously had not done his homeword on the legal front either when he
claimed that Open Source is "not even a (TM)"... Um, Open Source IS in
fact a (TM)---it is not however an (R).

His article was pretty much more of the FUD-filled trash I have come to
expect from ZDnet. And the same authoritarian contempt for the people
who make Linux and the Free Software movement what it is from a man who
doesn't get it, never will, but continues to pretend he does.

And lately I have been on a letter-writing spree... Not just to
companies but to advertisers and more... More than a couple of people
will be reading my opinions of Evan Leibovitch's editorials as well as my
opinions of their style of coverage of Linux in general.

--
Joseph Carter <knghtbrd(at)debian(dot)org> Debian GNU/Linux developer
PGP: E8D68481E3A8BB77 8EE22996C9445FBE The Source Comes First!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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