Re: Request: SPI to join FACIL in support of Quebec challenge

Dear SPI board and members,

As you may have read in the news, FACIL, pour l'appropriation collective
de l'informatique libre (FACIL), is challenging the Quebec government's
manner of purchasing non-free software.

Can SPI join FACIL as an organisational member, to promote software in
the public interest in Quebec and to show solidarity for this move?
I'm not sure whether FACIL's policy on "Interventions au niveau politique"
is a problem, but it seems to stop short of party or electoral politics.
http://facil.qc.ca/drupal/fr/association/mandat

If it can, will it?

--
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
(Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 03:48:52PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
> Can SPI join FACIL as an organisational member, to promote software in
> the public interest in Quebec and to show solidarity for this move?
> I'm not sure whether FACIL's policy on "Interventions au niveau politique"
> is a problem, but it seems to stop short of party or electoral politics.
> http://facil.qc.ca/drupal/fr/association/mandat

Here are several US federal government pages on the rules on political and
lobbying activities for organizations with our tax status (we are a 501(c)(3)
organization, and specifically not a private foundation):

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=120703,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=179773,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicp97.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopici02.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=179750,00.html

Most likely, if we stay away from anything connected to partisan activity,
political campaigns, or expressing or influencing opinions on who should or
shouldn't be voted for or elected to office, we will not violate the
prohibition on political activities. If we stay away from anything trying to
directly or indirectly influence legislation or its adoption or rejection, we
will probably not violate the limitations on acceptable amounts of lobbying
activities. (If we "involve ourselves in issues of public policy [...] in an
educational manner" without doing stuff relating to legislation, that seems to
be OK.)

However, the above paragraph is only my summary of my understanding, not legal
advice from any lawyer, and if we do decide to join FACIL, we should get one of
our lawyers to confirm that it won't cause us tax problems before any such
decision becomes effective.

- Jimmy Kaplowitz
jimmy(at)spi-inc(dot)org

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 11:29:31AM -0400, Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote:
> However, the above paragraph is only my summary of my understanding, not legal
> advice from any lawyer, and if we do decide to join FACIL, we should get one of
> our lawyers to confirm that it won't cause us tax problems before any such
> decision becomes effective.

There's also the political problem of a US foundation involving itself
in the affairs of a Canadian province. Not that we Canadians aren't
used to US corporations involving themselves whenever it suits :)

A

--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs(at)commandprompt(dot)com
+1 503 667 4564 x104
http://www.commandprompt.com/

Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote:
> However, the above paragraph is only my summary of my understanding,
> not legal advice from any lawyer, and if we do decide to join FACIL,
> we should get one of our lawyers to confirm that it won't cause us tax
> problems before any such decision becomes effective.

I'd recommend contacting our CPA who may be more versed in taxes than
our lawyers.

--
----------------------------
Michael Schultheiss
E-mail: schultmc(at)spi-inc(dot)org

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 11:55:01AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> There's also the political problem of a US foundation involving itself
> in the affairs of a Canadian province. Not that we Canadians aren't
> used to US corporations involving themselves whenever it suits :)

Hehe, true. Although, SPI is really more of a global organization, despite
being incorporated in the US with US bank accounts and tax status. After all,
only half of the 9 board members are USians, and one of the remaining board
members is even Canadian. The membership (contributing and non-contributing) is
from all over the world, including Canada and elsewhere in addition to the US.
Still, I wouldn't want SPI to be involved in FACIL if it would seem politically
inappropriate and be counterproductive to FACIL's goals or SPI's credibility in
Canada or elsewhere. More information on this important detail would be
welcome.

- Jimmy Kaplowitz
jimmy(at)spi-inc(dot)org

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 12:08:57PM -0400, Michael Schultheiss wrote:
> Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote:
> > However, the above paragraph is only my summary of my understanding,
> > not legal advice from any lawyer, and if we do decide to join FACIL,
> > we should get one of our lawyers to confirm that it won't cause us tax
> > problems before any such decision becomes effective.
>
> I'd recommend contacting our CPA who may be more versed in taxes than
> our lawyers.

I'd be fine with an answer from a CPA too (excluding general information that's
not specific advice to us), though I'd expect that the SFLC is extremely
familiar with the tax issues applicable to our situation given their
relationship with the Software Freedom Conservancy and the fact that both SFLC
and SFC have 501(c)(3) status.

- Jimmy Kaplowitz
jimmy(at)spi-inc(dot)org

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 12:20:17PM -0400, Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote:
> members is even Canadian. The membership (contributing and non-contributing) is
> from all over the world, including Canada and elsewhere in addition to the US.

Oh, I didn't have any doubts about that. I'd just hate for someone
opposed to what FACIL is trying to do to use the US incorporation
against them.

> Still, I wouldn't want SPI to be involved in FACIL if it would seem politically
> inappropriate and be counterproductive to FACIL's goals or SPI's credibility in
> Canada or elsewhere. More information on this important detail would be
> welcome.

I suspect the easiest thing to do would be to see if there were a
FACIL member who wanted to invite us to help. If the message is
prepared correctly, then its "Global Free Software advocates joining
to promote Free Software in Québec," instead of, "US advocacy group
interferes in Québec government procurement." That's all I'm worried
about :)

A

--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs(at)commandprompt(dot)com
+1 503 667 4564 x104
http://www.commandprompt.com/

Jimmy Kaplowitz <jimmy(at)spi-inc(dot)org> wrote: [...]
> Most likely, if we stay away from anything connected to partisan activity,
> political campaigns, or expressing or influencing opinions on who should or
> shouldn't be voted for or elected to office, we will not violate the
> prohibition on political activities. If we stay away from anything trying to
> directly or indirectly influence legislation or its adoption or rejection, we
> will probably not violate the limitations on acceptable amounts of lobbying
> activities. [...]

That was pretty much my understanding. So, would members like SPI to
join FACIL?

It seems pretty clearly acceptable under a SPI goal "to aid, assist,
cooperate, co-sponsor and otherwise engage in concerted action with
private, educational and governmental organizations and associations
on all issues and matters concerning the use of computers and computer
software and generally"

Just so there's someone to do any work involved, I offer to act as
liaison, although a Canadian francophone member would be better IMO.

Regards,
--
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
(Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237

On 2008-08-30 at 10:16:19, MJ Ray wrote:
> That was pretty much my understanding. So, would members like SPI to
> join FACIL?

I think it's a great idea. They would probably be quite happy to receive
some support from similarly-aligned organisations across the world.

> Just so there's someone to do any work involved, I offer to act as
> liaison, although a Canadian francophone member would be better IMO.

I am also keen on helping out with this. I am a French Canadian and I could
easily get in touch with people on the FACIL council if we'd like to be
"officially invited to join" as opposed to joining directly.

Cheers,
Francois