Meeting Log for 2009-07-08

I thought this was the annual meeting, but it looks like a plain board
meeting in the log. Typical annual meeting items, like annual
financial and social reports and officer elections, didn't seem to
happen. Asking on IRC later, it seems this *was* the annual meeting
and the officer elections are deferred until after the board
elections. Not sure where that leaves the annual reports, but I'm not
going to chase it too hard. You can if you want.

I'm slightly disappointed that there's still only one nomination shown
on http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/votes/vote8 - why so few
candidates this year? If you're a contributing member who wants to
help a wide range of free software projects, please consider standing.

HIGHLIGHTS

[item 1, Opening]
<bdale> Welcome to today's Software in the Public Interest board of
directors meeting, which is now called to order. Today's agenda and
details of pending resolutions can be found on the web at:
http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/agenda/2009/2009-07-08.html

[item 2, Roll Call]
21:00:27 <zobel> Martin Zobel-Helas
21:00:34 <bdale> Bdale Garbee
21:00:37 <Ganneff> Joerg Jaspert
21:00:44 <Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz
21:03:21 <Maulkin> Neil McGovern
21:05:44 <schultmc> Michael Schultheiss

[item 3, President's Report]
<bdale> My apologies to the board for missing our last meeting. Last
month, I spent two weeks in Brazil including attending FISL 10. Over
8200 people attended FISL, and the highlight for me was undoubtedly
the visit by President Lula to the event. I was one of about 10
people at the event invited to meet and speak with him semi-privately
before his public talk. The content of his talk has been reported
elsewhere. Suffice to say, it was an incredible experience to meet
the president of the world's 12th largest economy in person, and hear
him speak quite passionately about Free Software. I'm now looking
forward to the Debconf later this month, at which we have an SPI BOF
scheduled. I hope all of you that plan to be there will participate
in talking to interested DDs about the role SPI plays for Debian,
answering questions, etc.

<Hydroxide> [the SPI BOF is] the 25th

[item 4, Treasurer's Report]
<schultmc> A routine treasurer's report was sent out earlier this
week. Like last month, The HeliOS Project's balance is negative due to
our use of cash based accounting I'm considering switching to accrual
based accounting to avoid quirks like that. I'm using standard cash
based accounting since I wasn't familiar with [the previous] modified
cash-based.

[item 5, Secretary's report]
<Hydroxide> nothing beyond what I put in the agenda

[item 6, Outstanding minutes]
results for "June 17th, 2009 minutes": Yes: 4, Abstain: 2

[item 7, Items up for discussion]

[item 7.1, SPI Board Elections]

<Hydroxide> just a reminder to submit nominations to neilm(at)spi-inc(dot)org
by the 13th - we have one nomination for two positions so far and I
also wanted to check with Maulkin regarding the state of the voting
software in the event we have 3 or more nominees. If nominations are
sent to me I will of course pass them on to Neil.

<Maulkin> it's fine. I still get secretary@ :)

[item 7.2, Resolution 2009-07-06.jrk.1.bg.1: Open64 as associated project]

results for "Open64 resolution 2009-07-08.jrk.1.bg.1": Yes: 4, Abstain: 2

[item 7.3, Resolution 2009-07-06.jrk.2: OSUNIX as associated project]

<codestr0m1> I would like any legal council advice publicly disclosed
because SFLC has requested this information and it's not public. it's
also completely unclear to me why there is this additional concern and
where it came from.. I don't know of any public lawyer expressing a
view of concern

<bdale> since much of our discussion has not been public, let me say
here that the core issue for SPI is that it's not clear that the
combination of CDDL and GPL code that is at the foundation of OSUNIX
is legally possible. adherence to the terms of free software licenses
is not optional, and not a small thing. it is a fundamental
expectation. so understanding whether there's really a problem and if
so how it should be resolved is important to us.

* Hydroxide requests that we please do not get into a discussion
during this meeting regarding the merits of any legal stances - this
is not the place for it and none of us are lawyers.

<Hydroxide> ok. hearing only requests to delay until the legal issues
are resolved, and hearing no seconds, I withdraw the resolution,
again, without prejudice to possible future consideration after the
issues are resolved

[item 8, Any other business]

<Hydroxide> I'll just mention publicly that I'm asking for someone
else to serve as secretary in the next term.

<Maulkin> Just to thank the board for an interesting few years on it:)

[item 9, Next board meeting]

<bdale> We need to meet to select officers after the conclusion of the
board election.

<Hydroxide> Wednesday, August 19th, 20:00 UTC

TIMED LOG

21:00:01 <bdale> *GAVEL*
21:00:01 <bdale> [item 1, Opening] Welcome to today's Software in the Public Interest board of directors meeting, which is now called to order.
21:00:01 <bdale> Today's agenda and details of pending resolutions can be found on the web at: http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/agenda/2009/2009-07-08.html
21:00:08 <bdale> [item 2, Roll Call]
21:00:09 <bdale> Board members, please state your name for the record. As we have nine board members, quorum for today's meeting is six.
21:00:09 <bdale> Guests (including board advisors), please /msg your names to Hydroxide if you wish your attendance to be recorded in the minutes of this meeting.
21:00:27 <zobel> Martin Zobel-Helas
21:00:34 <bdale> Bdale Garbee
21:00:37 <Ganneff> Joerg Jaspert
21:00:44 <Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz
21:01:08 <Ganneff> Maulkin, luk__, schultmc: ping
21:01:18 <zobel> luk__ is on vac.
21:01:29 <zobel> afaik
21:01:53 * bdale notes that he's in a work meeting, and apologies in advance if he appears somewhat distracted as a result
21:02:16 <bdale> we need 6 for quorum, right?
21:03:21 <Maulkin> Neil McGovern
21:04:21 * Hydroxide is being frequently interrupted by $paidjob stuff but will participate as much as feasible
21:04:40 <bdale> we still need one more for quorum, right?
21:04:44 <Ganneff> yes
21:05:01 <bdale> who are we missing?
21:05:09 <zobel> aren't we missing cdlu?
21:05:09 <Ganneff> linuxpoet?
21:05:12 <Ganneff> cdlu?
21:05:15 <Hydroxide> cdlu cannot come as he just started a new job today and it would be totally inappropriate to attend unrelated meetings on the first day of a new job :)
21:05:34 <bdale> so we have regrets from cdlu and luk?
21:05:41 <schultmc> whoops
21:05:43 <Hydroxide> linuxpoet can't make it apparently
21:05:44 <schultmc> Michael Schultheiss
21:05:46 <schultmc> sorry
21:05:47 <Hydroxide> woo
21:05:49 <bdale> schultmc: thank you!
21:05:52 <bdale> ok, quorum
21:06:00 <bdale> [item 3, President's Report]
21:06:01 <bdale> My apologies to the board for missing our last meeting.
21:06:01 <bdale> Last month, I spent two weeks in Brazil including attending FISL 10. Over 8200 people attended FISL, and the highlight for me was undoubtedly
21:06:01 <bdale> the visit by President Lula to the event. I was one of about 10 people at the event invited to meet and speak with him semi-privately before
21:06:02 <bdale> his public talk. The content of his talk has been reported elsewhere. Suffice to say, it was an incredible experience to meet the president
21:06:04 <bdale> of the world's 12th largest economy in person, and hear him speak quite passionately about Free Software.
21:06:06 <bdale> I'm now looking forward to the Debconf later this month, at which we have an SPI BOF scheduled. I hope all of you that plan to be there will
21:06:09 <bdale> participate in talking to interested DDs about the role SPI plays for Debian, answering questions, etc.
21:06:11 <bdale> Any questions?
21:07:05 * zobel needs to look if he is still present when the SPI bof takes place.
21:07:10 <Hydroxide> zobel: it's the 25th
21:07:30 <zobel> great. /me leaves 28th.
21:07:57 <zobel> seems like no more questions...
21:09:21 * Hydroxide suggests moving on
21:09:31 <bdale> [item 4, Treasurer's Report]
21:09:31 <bdale> Michael?
21:09:45 <schultmc> A routine treasurer's report was sent out earlier this week
21:10:12 <schultmc> Like last month, The HeliOS Project's balance is negative due to our use of cash based accounting
21:10:26 <schultmc> I'm considering switching to accrual based accounting to avoid quirks like that
21:11:04 <Hydroxide> I'd support that. either that or standard cash-based accounting that recognizes checks when received
21:11:13 <Hydroxide> (at least that's what the IRS says is standard)
21:11:34 <schultmc> Hydroxide: I'm using standard cash based accounting since I wasn't familiar with your modified cash-based
21:11:58 <Hydroxide> schultmc: so you're recognizing checks when you receive them and not when you get around to depositing them?
21:12:25 <schultmc> Hydroxide: no, I recognize them when I deposit them (which is essentially the same day)
21:12:51 <Hydroxide> schultmc: ah. well when those dates differ, there's the difference I'm referring to. in any case, accrual accounting is clearer and worth using if it's not too much hassle
21:13:07 * Hydroxide will be interrupted shortly again by $paidjob stuff
21:13:42 <bdale> do we need to take any action on this today, Michael?
21:13:51 * Hydroxide suggests not
21:13:51 <schultmc> bdale: no
21:14:01 <bdale> ok, then let's proceed
21:14:04 <bdale> [item 5, Secretary's report]
21:14:04 <bdale> Jimmy?
21:14:12 <Hydroxide> nothing beyond what I put in the agenda
21:14:47 <Hydroxide> questions welcome
21:15:10 <Hydroxide> or we can move on :)
21:15:29 <zobel> Hydroxide: can we talk later this week about the secritary duties? i am still thinking about it.
21:15:33 <Hydroxide> zobel: sure
21:15:41 <bdale> [item 6, Outstanding minutes]
21:15:42 <bdale> Jimmy, what are we ready to vote on today?
21:15:47 <Hydroxide> last month's, June
21:15:55 <Hydroxide> ready to vote?
21:16:34 <Ganneff> go
21:16:35 <Hydroxide> Voting started, 6 people (bdale,ganneff,schultmc,hydroxide,zobel,maulkin) allowed to vote on June 17th, 2009 minutes. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
21:16:40 <Hydroxide> !vote yes
21:16:43 <Ganneff> !vote yes
21:16:45 <schultmc> !vote yes
21:16:48 <zobel> !vote yes
21:16:52 <bdale> !vote abstain
21:17:07 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: ^^^
21:17:31 <Hydroxide> going to move on, barring objections - majority of those present have approved
21:17:40 <Hydroxide> Current voting results for "June 17th, 2009 minutes": Yes: 4, No: 0, Abstain: 1, Missing: 1 ( maulkin )
21:17:43 <Hydroxide> Voting for "June 17th, 2009 minutes" closed.
21:17:53 <Hydroxide> minutes approved.
21:18:03 <bdale> ok, thanks
21:18:05 <Maulkin> !vote abstain
21:18:10 <Maulkin> (by the way)
21:18:12 <Maulkin> :)
21:18:18 <Hydroxide> NOTE FOR MINUTES: Maulkin abstains. minutes approved 4-0-2
21:18:22 <bdale> [item 7, Items up for discussion]
21:18:22 <Hydroxide> ok
21:18:23 <bdale> [item 7.1, SPI Board Elections]
21:18:23 <bdale> Jimmy, do you want to talk about this?
21:18:40 <Hydroxide> just a reminder to submit nominations to neilm(at)spi-inc(dot)org by the 13th - we have one nomination for two positions so far
21:19:13 <Ganneff> to neil, not secretary?
21:19:16 <Hydroxide> and I also wanted to check with Maulkin regarding the state of the voting software in the event we have 3 or more nominees
21:19:34 <Hydroxide> Ganneff: yes. as per my secretary's report, he offered to run the election, which is not a conflict of interest since he's not seeking re-election
21:19:40 <Maulkin> Ganneff: either
21:19:52 <Hydroxide> Ganneff: if nominations are sent to me I will of course pass them on to neil
21:19:54 <Maulkin> Hydroxide: it's fine
21:20:01 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: good.
21:20:06 <Maulkin> Hydroxide: I still get secretary@ :)
21:20:12 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: aah :)
21:20:43 <Ganneff> wecanchangethat :)
21:20:48 <Hydroxide> :P
21:21:13 <Ganneff> next?
21:21:26 <bdale> [item 7.2, Resolution 2009-07-06.jrk.1.bg.1: Open64 as associated project]
21:21:27 <bdale> Jimmy? This one seems pretty simple to me now that we've resolved the governance questions?
21:21:37 <Hydroxide> seems simple to me too
21:21:41 <Hydroxide> any discussion?
21:21:56 <Maulkin> Has governance been acked?
21:22:13 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: did you notice the revision to the resolution? this one now includes accurate governance info
21:22:27 <Maulkin> Yes,but has it been acked by christopher?
21:22:34 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: he was involved in that discussion, yes
21:22:38 <Maulkin> k
21:22:52 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: as were members of the Open64 steering committee
21:23:06 <Hydroxide> ready to vote on this?
21:23:15 <Ganneff> go
21:23:20 <bdale> yes
21:24:00 <Hydroxide> Voting started, 6 people (bdale,ganneff,schultmc,hydroxide,zobel,maulkin) allowed to vote on Open64 resolution 2009-07-08.jrk.1.bg.1. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
21:24:02 <Maulkin> !vote abstain
21:24:39 <Hydroxide> !vote yes
21:24:41 <schultmc> !vote yes
21:24:46 <bdale> !vote yes
21:24:49 <Ganneff> !vote abstain
21:24:52 <zobel> !vote
21:24:55 <zobel> !vote yes
21:25:02 <Hydroxide> Current voting results for "Open64 resolution 2009-07-08.jrk.1.bg.1": Yes: 4, No: 0, Abstain: 2, Missing: 0 ()
21:25:06 <Hydroxide> Voting for "Open64 resolution 2009-07-08.jrk.1.bg.1" closed.
21:25:23 <Hydroxide> Open64 is thereby offered associated project status according to the resolution
21:25:31 <Hydroxide> we look forward to hearing from the steering committee within 60 days.
21:25:43 <Hydroxide> codestr0m1: ^^ (see above) ^^
21:25:48 <codestr0m1> ack
21:26:39 <Maulkin> Next?
21:26:52 <zobel> please
21:26:59 <bdale> [item 7.3, Resolution 2009-07-06.jrk.2: OSUNIX as associated project]
21:26:59 <bdale> Jimmy? Based on the feedback from counsel, I remain concerned about liability until the licensing issue is resolved.
21:27:18 <Hydroxide> I would have voted for a 30-day conditional association period while the
21:27:19 <Hydroxide> legal issues got resolved, but the feedback I got from the board was
21:27:19 <Hydroxide> opposed to that, so given that I agree with them that OSUNIX should not
21:27:19 <Hydroxide> be associated with SPI until the legal issues are resolved.
21:27:26 <Maulkin> My concerns have been relayed to board@
21:27:45 <Maulkin> Hydroxide: are you withdrawing the motion?
21:28:01 <zobel> awk for 2min
21:28:08 <zobel> afk even
21:28:10 <codestr0m1> requests permission to speak
21:28:17 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: I'm still willing to allow it to be voted on if codestr0m1 wants
21:28:18 <Hydroxide> codestr0m1: go
21:29:56 <Ganneff> now?
21:29:58 <bdale> ?
21:30:05 <Hydroxide> codestr0m1: ?
21:30:11 <codestr0m1> I would like any legal council advice publicly disclosed because SFLC has requested this information and it's not public
21:31:12 <codestr0m1> it's also completely unclear to me why there is this additional concern and where it came from.. I don't know of any public lawyer expressing a view of concern
21:32:23 <bdale> since much of our discussion has not been public, let me say here that the core issue for SPI is that it's not clear that the combination of CDDL and GPL code that is at the foundation of OSUNIX is legally possible.
21:33:04 <bdale> adherence to the terms of free software licenses is not optional, and not a small thing. it is a fundamental expectation. so understanding whether there's really a problem and if so how it should be resolved is important to us.
21:33:05 <codestr0m1> the lawyer asked this and I was clear.. no CDDL and GPL code are combined.. it's the binaries that are shipped
21:33:07 <Ganneff> debians stanza on that (and that of many other linux distributions), triggered by cdrtools, is that it a link between those is not.
21:33:37 * Hydroxide requests that we please do not get into a discussion during this meeting regarding the merits of any legal stances - this is not the place for it and none of us are lawyers.
21:33:45 <bdale> agreed
21:33:49 <Ganneff> ay
21:33:58 <codestr0m1> yes. cdrecord is not libc. which is the only CDDL binary that links with anything GPL and it's under the OBL license
21:34:31 <bdale> what's important to me is that we understand and control any additional risk of liability for SPI. Until the situation involving the licenses in OSUNIX is resolved, I personally see a risk that outweighs the benefit to SPI of association.
21:34:44 <codestr0m1> well. I want the legal stance clearly stated because I think things have been inaccurate and not properly followed up on
21:35:28 <Ganneff> i think waiting a month more with this resolution and taking the time to sort this out wouldnt hurt
21:35:32 <Hydroxide> codestr0m1: I don't think SPI should waive any attorney-client privilege it hasn't already waived with regard to this situation by communicating summaries of legal advice to you, but I'm not going to stop you from publicizing what we've told you regarding our legal concerns
21:35:34 <bdale> so if we vote on this today, I will vote against the resolution. not with any prejudice towards OSUNIX, but because I want this issue resolved before approving the association
21:36:06 <Hydroxide> codestr0m1: do you still want us to vote on it today or withdraw it for now? either way it can be voted on later, assuming it's not approved today
21:36:30 <codestr0m1> not sure.. I let the board decide
21:37:13 <Ganneff> Hydroxide: so its yours. vote or not?
21:37:15 <Hydroxide> if any other board member wants a vote, I'll call a vote. just say so in the next few moments, otherwise I withdraw it since it clearly wouldn't pass in the absence of a second
21:38:06 <zobel> Hydroxide: /me is for first solving the legal issues.
21:38:38 <Hydroxide> ok. hearing only requests to delay until the legal issues are resolved, and hearing no seconds, I withdraw the resolution
21:39:02 <Hydroxide> again, without prejudice to possible future consideration after the issues are resolved
21:39:27 <Ganneff> next?
21:39:55 <bdale> [item 8, Any other business]
21:39:55 <bdale> Do any board members have other items for discussion they would like to address briefly?
21:40:21 <Hydroxide> I'll just mention publicly that I'm asking for someone else to serve as secretary in the next term
21:40:26 <Maulkin> Just to thank the board for an interesting few years on it:)
21:40:40 <bdale> ok, thanks and thanks!
21:40:45 <bdale> [item 9, Next board meeting]
21:40:46 <bdale> We need to meet to select officers after the conclusion of the board election. Is our next regularly-scheduled monthly meeting good for that or do we
21:40:46 <bdale> want a separate meeting?
21:41:17 <zobel> decide that during debconf? :)
21:41:19 <schultmc> bdale: I'm fine with the next regularly scheduled meeting
21:41:49 <schultmc> bdale: several board members will be at DebConf at the end of this month - are we planning another July meeting or waiting until August?
21:42:00 <bdale> I'm happy with August
21:42:04 <Maulkin> Ack
21:42:06 * schultmc too
21:42:08 <bdale> running a meeting at Debconf was a lose in EDI
21:42:17 <bdale> the SPI BOF is good
21:42:25 <Hydroxide> should we stick with our late-august time or something else?
21:42:51 <zobel> Hydroxide: I'm fine with the next regularly scheduled meeting
21:43:38 <Hydroxide> as am I. hopefully whoever replaces Maulkin is too :)
21:43:47 <Hydroxide> (and possibly whoever replaces schultmc, if he's not re-elected)
21:44:09 <bdale> so what is the time for our next regularly scheduled meeting?
21:44:17 <Hydroxide> Wednesday, August 19th, 20:00 UTC
21:44:30 <Hydroxide> bdale: you need an easily accessible calendar widget in your desktop environment :)
21:44:38 <bdale> I do
21:44:44 <zobel> gnome has .)
21:44:49 <bdale> doing less than two meetings at once would help, too
21:44:54 <Hydroxide> haha :)
21:44:55 <bdale> that date looks ok to me
21:45:01 <Hydroxide> same here
21:45:02 <bdale> ok, let's consider that done, then.
21:45:04 <Hydroxide> great
21:45:08 <bdale> Ok, thank you to everyone present for participating today.
21:45:09 <bdale> *GAVEL*

Hope that helps,
--
MJ Ray (slef) LMS developer and webmaster at | software
www.software.coop http://mjr.towers.org.uk | .... co
Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html | .... op