RE: Worst Case Scenarios - SPI and Lawsuits

I'm not sure what brought up the talk of bankruptcy, but in bankruptcy, the bankruptcy trustee would sell the assets of the bankrupt organization to pay off the debtors of the organization. Does SPI have any debtors? If SPI is sued and goes bankrupt in paying off the judgement, perhaps a debtor could exist, but otherwise, I can't see where a debtor could come from.

As far as I know, SPI has no patents.

Copyrights don't really exist for code that has been released as open source, although that is more from the decision of the owner of the copyright not to enforce it than from a legal status. However, if code is released as open source, then it would probably be very difficult for the owner to go back and "reclaim" the right to enforce the copyright. I can do some research on this, but I think it is unlikely that this would happen because of the difficulty of identifying who owns the
copyright if many people have contributed to the code.

Trademarks are a different story, but they must be transferred with the "goodwill" in order for the transfer or acquisition to be effective. It seems like the goodwill associated with the trademarks of a non-profit would be difficult to transfer to a for-profit entity, but again, I think there is a better strategy - declare that all trademarks used by SPI lack distinctiveness, and treat them that way. If a mark is descriptive (e.g. "GREAT BURGERS" for hamburgers) or generic (e.g. "HAMBURGERS"
for hamburgers), then NOBODY can get rights in the mark (although in the case of a descriptive mark, 5 years of exclusive use can provide the mark with distinctiveness, which equates to a legally enforceable trademark). A mark like DEBIAN can be generic, though - ASPIRIN used to be a mark owned by Bayer for acetylsalicylic acid, but they let it become the generic term for that compound. Now, nobody has trademark rights to ASPIRIN.

Domains, of course, can be owned. The simple fix for this is to create a non-profit transfer SPI's domains to them, and then license the use of SPI's domain names back to SPI.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Branden Robinson / SPI Treasurer
> [mailto:branden+spi-treasurer(at)deadbeast(dot)net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:11 PM
> To: Brian Ristuccia
> Cc: Andrew Hagen; spi-general(at)lists2(dot)spi-inc(dot)org;
> spi-board(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org
> Subject: Re: Worst Case Scenarios - SPI and Lawsuits
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 01:38:33AM -0500, Brian Ristuccia wrote:
> > We should really revisit this thread at some point. As far
> as I can tell, no
> > steps have been taken yet to reduce the risk of
> reassignment of SPI's
> > copyrights, patents, trademarks, domains to a hostile 3rd
> party in the event
> > of bankrupcy.
>
> You guys should talk to Chris Rourk about this. He is SPI's attorney.
> Please carry out your discussion via board(at)spi-inc(dot)org so
> that the Board
> can see it.
>
> --
> G. Branden Robinson | It's not a matter of
> alienating
> Debian GNU/Linux | authors. They have
> every right to
> branden(at)deadbeast(dot)net | license their
> software however we
> http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | like. -- Craig Sanders
>

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On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:08:40AM -0600, Rourk, Chris wrote:
>
> Domains, of course, can be owned. The simple fix for this is to create a
> non-profit transfer SPI's domains to them, and then license the use of
> SPI's domain names back to SPI.
>

Ok. But what if that non-profit gets sued (say as a result of some large
corporation's dislike of certain multimedia software on http.us.debian.org
or a dangerous cult group with a vendetta and a friendly judge) and a
judgement gets entered for some huge amount of money. Since the domains are
the non-profit's only asset, wouldn't they get sold at a bankrupcy auction?
We haven't solved the problem, but rather just moved it...

Is it possible to make the domain registrant be some group of individuals
and corporations such that it wouldn't seem fair to penalize all of them
just because one went bankrupt?

--
Brian Ristuccia
brian(at)ristuccia(dot)com
bristucc(at)cs(dot)uml(dot)edu

On Fri, 2002-01-11 at 15:17, Brian Ristuccia wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:08:40AM -0600, Rourk, Chris wrote:
> >
> > Domains, of course, can be owned. The simple fix for this is to create a
> > non-profit transfer SPI's domains to them, and then license the use of
> > SPI's domain names back to SPI.
> >
>
> Ok. But what if that non-profit gets sued (say as a result of some large
> corporation's dislike of certain multimedia software on http.us.debian.org
> or a dangerous cult group with a vendetta and a friendly judge) and a
> judgement gets entered for some huge amount of money. Since the domains are
> the non-profit's only asset, wouldn't they get sold at a bankrupcy auction?
> We haven't solved the problem, but rather just moved it...
>
> Is it possible to make the domain registrant be some group of individuals
> and corporations such that it wouldn't seem fair to penalize all of them
> just because one went bankrupt?

Maybe it could be arranged for any assets used or held for Debian to be
held on trust? That would put them outside the reach of creditors of
SPI.
--
Oliver Elphick Oliver(dot)Elphick(at)lfix(dot)co(dot)uk
Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver
GPG: 1024D/3E1D0C1C: CA12 09E0 E8D5 8870 5839 932A 614D 4C34 3E1D 0C1C

"Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his
courts with praise. Be thankful unto him, and bless
his name." Psalms 100:4

On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:17:20AM -0500, Brian Ristuccia wrote:
> Ok. But what if that non-profit gets sued (say as a result of some large
> corporation's dislike of certain multimedia software on http.us.debian.org
> or a dangerous cult group with a vendetta and a friendly judge)

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble distinguishing between large corporations
and dangerous cult groups...perhaps you could explain the difference to
me?

:)

--
G. Branden Robinson | We either learn from history or,
Debian GNU/Linux | uh, well, something bad will
branden(at)deadbeast(dot)net | happen.
http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -- Bob Church

crourk(at)AKINGUMP(dot)COM (Rourk, Chris) wrote on 11.01.02 in <8552BC2B2F1FD311B33D00508B0CCBE104194C04(at)AGDLEX01>:

> like DEBIAN can be generic, though - ASPIRIN used to be a mark owned by
> Bayer for acetylsalicylic acid, but they let it become the generic term for
> that compound. Now, nobody has trademark rights to ASPIRIN.>

Actually, Bayer tells me on every package that Aspirin is a registered
trademark. Just to remind everyone that it's a large world.

MfG Kai

Hi, tring to get off the list... where is the page ??

TIS
--- Kai Henningsen <kaih(at)khms(dot)westfalen(dot)de> wrote:
> crourk(at)AKINGUMP(dot)COM (Rourk, Chris) wrote on 11.01.02 in
> <8552BC2B2F1FD311B33D00508B0CCBE104194C04(at)AGDLEX01>:
>
> > like DEBIAN can be generic, though - ASPIRIN used to be a mark owned by
> > Bayer for acetylsalicylic acid, but they let it become the generic term for
> > that compound. Now, nobody has trademark rights to ASPIRIN.>
>
> Actually, Bayer tells me on every package that Aspirin is a registered
> trademark. Just to remind everyone that it's a large world.
>
> MfG Kai
>
> _______________________________________________
> Spi-general mailing list
> Spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org
> http://lists.spi-inc.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/spi-general

=====
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On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 12:33:52PM -0800, John van V. wrote:
> Hi, tring to get off the list... where is the page ??

The spi-announce and spi-general lists are, confusngly, still managed by
the Debian list servers despite the existence of SPI's own mailing list
server (nowadays).

http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/unsubscribe

Should have them listed but it doesn't. CC'ing the Debian listmasters
and SPI board to see if somebody can fix this.

--
G. Branden Robinson | Don't use nuclear weapons to
Debian GNU/Linux | troubleshoot faults.
branden(at)deadbeast(dot)net | -- US Air Force Instruction 91-111
http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ |

On Sun, 2002-03-10 at 20:33, John van V. wrote:
>
>
> Hi, tring to get off the list... where is the page ??
>
> TIS
> --- Kai Henningsen <kaih(at)khms(dot)westfalen(dot)de> wrote:
> > crourk(at)AKINGUMP(dot)COM (Rourk, Chris) wrote on 11.01.02 in
> > <8552BC2B2F1FD311B33D00508B0CCBE104194C04(at)AGDLEX01>:
> >
> > > like DEBIAN can be generic, though - ASPIRIN used to be a mark owned by
> > > Bayer for acetylsalicylic acid, but they let it become the generic term for
> > > that compound. Now, nobody has trademark rights to ASPIRIN.>
> >
> > Actually, Bayer tells me on every package that Aspirin is a registered
> > trademark. Just to remind everyone that it's a large world.
> >
> > MfG Kai
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Spi-general mailing list
> > Spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org
> > http://lists.spi-inc.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/spi-general

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There it is in the message you quoted.

--
Oliver Elphick Oliver(dot)Elphick(at)lfix(dot)co(dot)uk
Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver
GPG: 1024D/3E1D0C1C: CA12 09E0 E8D5 8870 5839 932A 614D 4C34 3E1D 0C1C

"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have
faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?
Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and
daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish
you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing
about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same
way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by
actions, is dead." James 2:14-17

Previously Branden Robinson / SPI Treasurer wrote:
> The spi-announce and spi-general lists are, confusngly, still managed by
> the Debian list servers despite the existence of SPI's own mailing list
> server (nowadays).

That is not true, they are run by the SPI server and have been for some
time now.

Wichert.

--
_________________________________________________________________
/wichert(at)wiggy(dot)net This space intentionally left occupied \
| wichert(at)deephackmode(dot)org http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ |
| 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D |

On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 10:42:32PM +0100, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> Previously Branden Robinson / SPI Treasurer wrote:
> > The spi-announce and spi-general lists are, confusngly, still managed by
> > the Debian list servers despite the existence of SPI's own mailing list
> > server (nowadays).
>
> That is not true, they are run by the SPI server and have been for some
> time now.

In that case, someone should consider doing something about this:

http://lists.debian.org/spi.html

--
G. Branden Robinson | If God had intended for man to go
Debian GNU/Linux | about naked, we would have been
branden(at)deadbeast(dot)net | born that way.
http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ |