Re: Issue #20: A priori moderation on mailing lists delays message availability

Greetings,
I am sorry to inform you that the spi-general mailing list has visibly
been unreachable, for at least 40 hours. I personally sent a mail to
spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org titled "Issue #16: Vague contact
information for Open Voting Foundation associated project" on
2021-03-25. Yet, the latest mail to have gone through spi-general is
Martin Michlmayr's message from 2021-01-21 07:37:03 UTC:
http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/

As a subscriber, I must confirm that this is not simply a problem with
the archives./
/

Since spi-general was SPI's only transparent channel, thanks for
acknowledging reception of this mail by replying to all addressees./
/

--
Even though this mail is only sent to a private list, its non-quoted parts are not confidential and may be forwarded to public lists. This original content is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 4.0.

Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Greetings,
I haven't received any answer to my report sent yesterday. I am
therefore guessing that the spi-private mailing list is also unreachable.

If you receive this mail, please acknowledge reception replying to my
email address, chealer(at)gmail(dot)com (as well as to spi-private(at)spi-inc(dot)org).

Le 2021-03-27 à 13:11, Sysadmin tickets - incoming queue via RT a écrit :
> Greetings,
>
> This message has been automatically generated in response to the
> creation of a trouble ticket regarding:
> "Issue #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable",
> a summary of which appears below.
>
> There is no need to reply to this message right now. Your ticket has been
> assigned an ID of [SYSADM #4825].
>
> Please include the string:
>
> [SYSADM #4825]
>
> in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. To do so,
> you may reply to this message.
>
> Thank you,
> sysadmin(at)rt(dot)spi-inc(dot)org
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Greetings,
> I am sorry to inform you that the spi-general mailing list has visibly
> been unreachable, for at least 40 hours. I personally sent a mail to
> spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org titled "Issue #16: Vague contact
> information for Open Voting Foundation associated project" on
> 2021-03-25. Yet, the latest mail to have gone through spi-general is
> Martin Michlmayr's message from 2021-01-21 07:37:03 UTC:
> http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/
>
> As a subscriber, I must confirm that this is not simply a problem with
> the archives./
> /
>
> Since spi-general was SPI's only transparent channel, thanks for
> acknowledging reception of this mail by replying to all addressees./
> /
>
--
Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

* Philippe Cloutier <chealer(at)gmail(dot)com> [2021-03-27 13:11]:
> I am sorry to inform you that the spi-general mailing list has visibly been
> unreachable, for at least 40 hours. I personally sent a mail to

I noticed the same problem recently and opened a ticket but so
received no reply.

I'm worried that board(at)spi-inc(dot)org doesn't work since it's (IIRC) also
a mailing list; copying Stephen and Michael directly.

--
Martin Michlmayr
https://www.cyrius.com/

Philippe Cloutier wrote:
> Greetings,
> I haven't received any answer to my report sent yesterday. I am therefore
> guessing that the spi-private mailing list is also unreachable.
>
> If you receive this mail, please acknowledge reception replying to my email
> address, chealer(at)gmail(dot)com (as well as to spi-private(at)spi-inc(dot)org).

Acknowledged. I'm not seeing anything obviously wrong with the list mail
system. Our sysadmin team is reviewing this issue and will get it
resolved as soon as possible.

--
----------------------------
Michael Schultheiss
E-mail: schultmc(at)spi-inc(dot)org

Michael Schultheiss wrote:
> Philippe Cloutier wrote:
> > Greetings,
> > I haven't received any answer to my report sent yesterday. I am therefore
> > guessing that the spi-private mailing list is also unreachable.
> >
> > If you receive this mail, please acknowledge reception replying to my email
> > address, chealer(at)gmail(dot)com (as well as to spi-private(at)spi-inc(dot)org).
>
> Acknowledged. I'm not seeing anything obviously wrong with the list mail
> system. Our sysadmin team is reviewing this issue and will get it
> resolved as soon as possible.

I believe I have found and corrected the issue. Thank you for reporting
it. We will take steps to ensure infrastructure problems are resolved in
a more timely manner.

--
----------------------------
Michael Schultheiss
E-mail: schultmc(at)spi-inc(dot)org

Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> * Philippe Cloutier <chealer(at)gmail(dot)com> [2021-03-27 13:11]:
> > I am sorry to inform you that the spi-general mailing list has visibly been
> > unreachable, for at least 40 hours. I personally sent a mail to
>
> I noticed the same problem recently and opened a ticket but so
> received no reply.
>
> I'm worried that board(at)spi-inc(dot)org doesn't work since it's (IIRC) also
> a mailing list; copying Stephen and Michael directly.

This should now be resolved - apologies for the delay in responding due
to issues with the list software.

--
----------------------------
Michael Schultheiss
E-mail: schultmc(at)spi-inc(dot)org

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021, Philippe Cloutier wrote:

> Greetings,
> I am sorry to inform you that the spi-general mailing list has visibly been
> unreachable, for at least 40 hours. I personally sent a mail to
> spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org titled "Issue #16: Vague contact information
> for Open Voting Foundation associated project" on 2021-03-25. Yet, the latest
> mail to have gone through spi-general is Martin Michlmayr's message from
> 2021-01-21 07:37:03 UTC: http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/

I received your email previous email (Issue #16) Philippe. Notably I
received this email (Issue #17) through spi-general too, even though I'm
on two of those lists and dedupe email.

Rob

Le 2021-03-29 à 10:01, Michael Schultheiss a écrit :
> Martin Michlmayr wrote:
>> * Philippe Cloutier <chealer(at)gmail(dot)com> [2021-03-27 13:11]:
>>> I am sorry to inform you that the spi-general mailing list has visibly been
>>> unreachable, for at least 40 hours. I personally sent a mail to
>> I noticed the same problem recently and opened a ticket but so
>> received no reply.
>>
>> I'm worried that board(at)spi-inc(dot)org doesn't work since it's (IIRC) also
>> a mailing list; copying Stephen and Michael directly.
> This should now be resolved - apologies for the delay in responding due
> to issues with the list software.

Thank you very much Michael. Thanks also to Martin Michlmayr, and to
Robert Brockway for acknowledging reception of my report.

Although it is clear that Michael's actions have helped, I am
unfortunately under the impression that this issue is not fully fixed
yet. From the replies which reached me, I can't explain why the
following still don't show on spi-general's archives:

1. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 9:52 "Re: [SYSADM #4825] AutoReply:
Issue #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable"
2. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 9:58 "Re: [SYSADM #4825] AutoReply:
Issue #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable"
3. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 10:01 "Re: Issue #17: spi-general
mailing list unreachable", to which this mail replies
4. Robert Brockway's 2021-03-31 03:45 "Re: Issue #17: spi-general
mailing list unreachable"

--
This mail's original content (non-quoted parts) is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 4.0.

Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Philippe Cloutier wrote:
> Le 2021-03-29 à 10:01, Michael Schultheiss a écrit :
>
> Martin Michlmayr wrote:
>
> * Philippe Cloutier <chealer(at)gmail(dot)com> [2021-03-27 13:11]:
>
> I am sorry to inform you that the spi-general mailing list has visibly been
> unreachable, for at least 40 hours. I personally sent a mail to
>
> I noticed the same problem recently and opened a ticket but so
> received no reply.
>
> I'm worried that board(at)spi-inc(dot)org doesn't work since it's (IIRC) also
> a mailing list; copying Stephen and Michael directly.
>
> This should now be resolved - apologies for the delay in responding due
> to issues with the list software.
>
> Thank you very much Michael. Thanks also to Martin Michlmayr, and to Robert
> Brockway for acknowledging reception of my report.
>
> Although it is clear that Michael's actions have helped, I am unfortunately
> under the impression that this issue is not fully fixed yet. From the replies
> which reached me, I can't explain why the following still don't show on
> spi-general's archives:
>
> 1. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 9:52 "Re: [SYSADM #4825] AutoReply: Issue
> #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable"
> 2. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 9:58 "Re: [SYSADM #4825] AutoReply: Issue
> #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable"
> 3. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 10:01 "Re: Issue #17: spi-general mailing
> list unreachable", to which this mail replies
> 4. Robert Brockway's 2021-03-31 03:45 "Re: Issue #17: spi-general mailing list
> unreachable"

Mailman put many of the cc'd messages in the moderation queue due to
several SPI lists being cc'd.

--
----------------------------
Michael Schultheiss
E-mail: schultmc(at)spi-inc(dot)org

Some of SPI's mailing lists (at least spi-general and spi-private)
impose a priori moderation in certain circumstances. A mail sent to "Too
many recipients" can trigger such moderation queues. The forwarded
message is an example of a message which was directed to such a queue.
That message's content shows 4 more messages which presumably suffered
the same fate.

It appears that no matter how one subscribed, these mails will not be
relayed until they have been approved. And unfortunately, unless I am
missing something, there is also no way to access mails in queues via
the web interfaces. Unfortunately, this has an important impact on
communication efficiency, as processing delays visibly exceed 1 month in
certain cases (the forwarded message is still queued as I write these
lines).

While a proper solution should be implemented, increasing the criteria
to trigger a priori moderation and/or adding moderation manpower would
mitigate. I volunteer to help with the latter for spi-general.

-------- Message transféré --------
Sujet : Re: Issue #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable
Date : Fri, 2 Apr 2021 10:39:58 -0400
De : Philippe Cloutier <chealer(at)gmail(dot)com>
Pour : Michael Schultheiss <schultmc(at)spi-inc(dot)org>, Martin Michlmayr
<tbm(at)cyrius(dot)com>, spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org,
sysadmin(at)rt(dot)spi-inc(dot)org, webmaster(at)spi-inc(dot)org
Copie à : spi-private(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org, board(at)spi-inc(dot)org,
schultmc(at)debian(dot)org, sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net, sfrost(at)spi-inc(dot)org

Le 2021-03-29 à 10:01, Michael Schultheiss a écrit :
> Martin Michlmayr wrote:
>> * Philippe Cloutier<chealer(at)gmail(dot)com> [2021-03-27 13:11]:
>>> I am sorry to inform you that the spi-general mailing list has visibly been
>>> unreachable, for at least 40 hours. I personally sent a mail to
>> I noticed the same problem recently and opened a ticket but so
>> received no reply.
>>
>> I'm worried thatboard(at)spi-inc(dot)org doesn't work since it's (IIRC) also
>> a mailing list; copying Stephen and Michael directly.
> This should now be resolved - apologies for the delay in responding due
> to issues with the list software.

Thank you very much Michael. Thanks also to Martin Michlmayr, and to
Robert Brockway for acknowledging reception of my report.

Although it is clear that Michael's actions have helped, I am
unfortunately under the impression that this issue is not fully fixed
yet. From the replies which reached me, I can't explain why the
following still don't show on spi-general's archives:

1. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 9:52 "Re: [SYSADM #4825] AutoReply:
Issue #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable"
2. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 9:58 "Re: [SYSADM #4825] AutoReply:
Issue #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable"
3. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 10:01 "Re: Issue #17: spi-general
mailing list unreachable", to which this mail replies
4. Robert Brockway's 2021-03-31 03:45 "Re: Issue #17: spi-general
mailing list unreachable"

--
This mail's original content (non-quoted parts) is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 4.0.

Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Greetings,
The forwarded mail was eventually cleared:
http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2021-April/004147.html

Unfortunately, the issue persists and remains serious. For example, I
sent a mail titled "Issue #21: White slashes in page path generally
invisible (no contrast)" to spi-general on 2021-07-15, which was queued
for the reason "Message body is too big", and it is still stuck more
than a month later.

Until a proper solution is implemented, I recommend to increase the
criteria to trigger a priori moderation and/or add moderation manpower.
I am available to help with the latter, and willing to do so on a
volunteer basis.

Le 2021-05-08 à 17:20, Philippe Cloutier a écrit :
>
> Some of SPI's mailing lists (at least spi-general and spi-private)
> impose a priori moderation in certain circumstances. A mail sent to
> "Too many recipients" can trigger such moderation queues. The
> forwarded message is an example of a message which was directed to
> such a queue. That message's content shows 4 more messages which
> presumably suffered the same fate.
>
> It appears that no matter how one subscribed, these mails will not be
> relayed until they have been approved. And unfortunately, unless I am
> missing something, there is also no way to access mails in queues via
> the web interfaces. Unfortunately, this has an important impact on
> communication efficiency, as processing delays visibly exceed 1 month
> in certain cases (the forwarded message is still queued as I write
> these lines).
>
> While a proper solution should be implemented, increasing the criteria
> to trigger a priori moderation and/or adding moderation manpower would
> mitigate. I volunteer to help with the latter for spi-general.
>
> -------- Message transféré --------
> Sujet : Re: Issue #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable
> Date : Fri, 2 Apr 2021 10:39:58 -0400
> De : Philippe Cloutier <chealer(at)gmail(dot)com>
> Pour : Michael Schultheiss <schultmc(at)spi-inc(dot)org>, Martin Michlmayr
> <tbm(at)cyrius(dot)com>, spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org,
> sysadmin(at)rt(dot)spi-inc(dot)org, webmaster(at)spi-inc(dot)org
> Copie à : spi-private(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org, board(at)spi-inc(dot)org,
> schultmc(at)debian(dot)org, sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net, sfrost(at)spi-inc(dot)org
>
>
>
> Le 2021-03-29 à 10:01, Michael Schultheiss a écrit :
>> Martin Michlmayr wrote:
>>> * Philippe Cloutier<chealer(at)gmail(dot)com> [2021-03-27 13:11]:
>>>> I am sorry to inform you that the spi-general mailing list has visibly been
>>>> unreachable, for at least 40 hours. I personally sent a mail to
>>> I noticed the same problem recently and opened a ticket but so
>>> received no reply.
>>>
>>> I'm worried thatboard(at)spi-inc(dot)org doesn't work since it's (IIRC) also
>>> a mailing list; copying Stephen and Michael directly.
>> This should now be resolved - apologies for the delay in responding due
>> to issues with the list software.
>
> Thank you very much Michael. Thanks also to Martin Michlmayr, and to
> Robert Brockway for acknowledging reception of my report.
>
> Although it is clear that Michael's actions have helped, I am
> unfortunately under the impression that this issue is not fully fixed
> yet. From the replies which reached me, I can't explain why the
> following still don't show on spi-general's archives:
>
> 1. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 9:52 "Re: [SYSADM #4825]
> AutoReply: Issue #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable"
> 2. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 9:58 "Re: [SYSADM #4825]
> AutoReply: Issue #17: spi-general mailing list unreachable"
> 3. Michael Schultheiss's 2021-03-29 10:01 "Re: Issue #17: spi-general
> mailing list unreachable", to which this mail replies
> 4. Robert Brockway's 2021-03-31 03:45 "Re: Issue #17: spi-general
> mailing list unreachable"
>
--
This mail's original content (non-quoted parts) is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 4.0.

Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com